Where do these thoughts and emotions come from?
Ourselves, of course. I would say our thoughts had a Source; in fact I would say it was a Divine Source. Or pure Consciousness, if you prefer. That Pure Consciousness contained within It the potential of all individual, personal thoughts. And I would say that our emotions arise from our thoughts.
PB Quote on Mentalism taken from Wisdoms website
Moderator: figaro
self vs Self
If the first thought that came into your head or the first emotion that arose in your heart was your true self - then how would you explain the next thought and emotion that arose?
That would be a part of who you are, but not the definition of who you are. Well, here we are in full agreement.
Every person has within them the potential for good and bad. We can all experience the full range of human emotions, but it is our choice with which emotions we chose to identify that define our thoughts which, in turn, define us. I think this is well said - but I hope that I am not defined by my thoughts... I do not wish to be split into a billion definitions of "self". But yes, of course, I see what you are saying. And as you have pointed out in past discussions, we are held responsible, rightly so, for our thoughts and the decisions, large and small, that we make every second of every day.
Still: In my view, all those individual thoughts belong merely to the personality - not to the true Self. Otherwise there would be little hope for mankind or the evolution of Man.
That would be a part of who you are, but not the definition of who you are. Well, here we are in full agreement.
Every person has within them the potential for good and bad. We can all experience the full range of human emotions, but it is our choice with which emotions we chose to identify that define our thoughts which, in turn, define us. I think this is well said - but I hope that I am not defined by my thoughts... I do not wish to be split into a billion definitions of "self". But yes, of course, I see what you are saying. And as you have pointed out in past discussions, we are held responsible, rightly so, for our thoughts and the decisions, large and small, that we make every second of every day.
Still: In my view, all those individual thoughts belong merely to the personality - not to the true Self. Otherwise there would be little hope for mankind or the evolution of Man.
yet ...
Yet there are many different paths to Truth. How would you explain the Higher instincts of man, Anubis? Genius? i.e. the attributes in Man that sometimes lead Man to surpass the normal limitations and weaknesses of the human vehicle?
until next time
Unfortunately I must now leave this interesting discussion, Anubis. But I will return.
Hello Figaro!!
First off, I hope you had an excellent holiday season.
Second, I'm sorry it has taken me this long to get back to the topic discussion. First the holidays understandably intervened, then, shortly thereafter, a virus (planted by a hacker) managed to infect my computer and disable its internet capabilities. I'm still working to restore my computer, so I'm using a back up for the time being. I cannot help but think of the irony that is apparent in my signature now.
Anyway, back to business -
I think species other than human have also evolved over the centuries, and in ways other than physical ways. Don't you, Anubis?
Of course. But mental evolution is, as with any other evolutionary change, one that is rooted in survival.
Second, I'm sorry it has taken me this long to get back to the topic discussion. First the holidays understandably intervened, then, shortly thereafter, a virus (planted by a hacker) managed to infect my computer and disable its internet capabilities. I'm still working to restore my computer, so I'm using a back up for the time being. I cannot help but think of the irony that is apparent in my signature now.
Anyway, back to business -
I think species other than human have also evolved over the centuries, and in ways other than physical ways. Don't you, Anubis?
Of course. But mental evolution is, as with any other evolutionary change, one that is rooted in survival.
That Pure Consciousness contained within It the potential of all individual, personal thoughts. And I would say that our emotions arise from our thoughts.
But if our Pure Consciousness is the root of all thought, and our emotions rise from those thoughts, then doesn't that make us our emotions and thoughts??
How would you explain the Higher instincts of man, Anubis? Genius? i.e. the attributes in Man that sometimes lead Man to surpass the normal limitations and weaknesses of the human vehicle?
I would not attribute such things to a divine being. Instead, I attribute them to man himself. What should one consider to be the "normal" mental capabilities or strength for any given human being? Is it not equally normal for some one to be a genius? We all have such a capability, and desire, within us, as sentient beings with cognitive reasoning capabilities, to ascertain an innate understanding of the world around us. So, to your question, I pose this question -
Are the "normal limitations and weaknesses" of the human body really limitations imposed by nature? Or are they imposed by ourselves?
But if our Pure Consciousness is the root of all thought, and our emotions rise from those thoughts, then doesn't that make us our emotions and thoughts??
How would you explain the Higher instincts of man, Anubis? Genius? i.e. the attributes in Man that sometimes lead Man to surpass the normal limitations and weaknesses of the human vehicle?
I would not attribute such things to a divine being. Instead, I attribute them to man himself. What should one consider to be the "normal" mental capabilities or strength for any given human being? Is it not equally normal for some one to be a genius? We all have such a capability, and desire, within us, as sentient beings with cognitive reasoning capabilities, to ascertain an innate understanding of the world around us. So, to your question, I pose this question -
Are the "normal limitations and weaknesses" of the human body really limitations imposed by nature? Or are they imposed by ourselves?
Nice to have you back
First off, I hope you had an excellent holiday season.
Second, I'm sorry it has taken me this long to get back to the topic discussion. First the holidays understandably intervened, then, shortly thereafter, a virus (planted by a hacker) managed to infect my computer and disable its internet capabilities. I'm still working to restore my computer, so I'm using a back up for the time being. I cannot help but think of the irony that is apparent in my signature now.
I hope that you also had a wonderful Holiday Season - and nice to have you back. Thank you for the explanation - and for the final chuckle. Sorry to hear that your computer had a Dark Side episode ...
Second, I'm sorry it has taken me this long to get back to the topic discussion. First the holidays understandably intervened, then, shortly thereafter, a virus (planted by a hacker) managed to infect my computer and disable its internet capabilities. I'm still working to restore my computer, so I'm using a back up for the time being. I cannot help but think of the irony that is apparent in my signature now.
I hope that you also had a wonderful Holiday Season - and nice to have you back. Thank you for the explanation - and for the final chuckle. Sorry to hear that your computer had a Dark Side episode ...
Back to work
I think species other than human have also evolved over the centuries, and in ways other than physical ways. Don't you, Anubis?
Of course. But mental evolution is, as with any other evolutionary change, one that is rooted in survival. Hmm.... I would consider mental evolution, ' physical '. The clarity of mind that we now have, the quality of our ordinary waking state consciousness ...
I was speaking more of spiritual growth within the various species (hmm... I seem to have forgotten the plural of "species".) : that we have learned to work together, established various rules, ethical laws; these attributes can be found in groups other than humans, and are passed down through the generations and improved upon. Working together implies love and compassion ... Learning to take care of each other, teaching eachother. All this is more than "survival of the fittest" in the usual physical sense ...
Of course. But mental evolution is, as with any other evolutionary change, one that is rooted in survival. Hmm.... I would consider mental evolution, ' physical '. The clarity of mind that we now have, the quality of our ordinary waking state consciousness ...
I was speaking more of spiritual growth within the various species (hmm... I seem to have forgotten the plural of "species".) : that we have learned to work together, established various rules, ethical laws; these attributes can be found in groups other than humans, and are passed down through the generations and improved upon. Working together implies love and compassion ... Learning to take care of each other, teaching eachother. All this is more than "survival of the fittest" in the usual physical sense ...
spiritual evolution cont
And in my view this would include spiritual Teachings; Prophets, Teachers. Learning that we are not just the ego, but something more for instance ... (Sorry I just couldn't resist adding that one in.) The miracles of the saints cannot even be measured by the "survival of the fittest" doctrine. The saints will always survive and appear on earth, because they are the Fittest of all - even though they themselves are nothing. (St. Francis of Assisi once said that he had not known a day of health after he got on the spiritual Path.) But what other beings on earth can move boulders with one hand, cause floods to recede, tame wild animals with a few words, walk on water, swallow poisons without harm, not have to eat or sleep, walk through walls etc etc etc ?? And these are not just legends. There are saints on earth today with these powers. If not today, then within my lifetime.
Pure Consciousness vs thoughts and emotions
That Pure Consciousness contained within It the potential of all individual, personal thoughts. And I would say that our emotions arise from our thoughts.
But if our Pure Consciousness is the root of all thought, and our emotions rise from those thoughts, then doesn't that make us our emotions and thoughts??
You lost me - could you explain, say this with different words?
But if our Pure Consciousness is the root of all thought, and our emotions rise from those thoughts, then doesn't that make us our emotions and thoughts??
You lost me - could you explain, say this with different words?
Man
How would you explain the Higher instincts of man, Anubis? Genius? i.e. the attributes in Man that sometimes lead Man to surpass the normal limitations and weaknesses of the human vehicle?
I would not attribute such things to a divine being. Instead, I attribute them to man himself. What should one consider to be the "normal" mental capabilities or strength for any given human being? Is it not equally normal for some one to be a genius? We all have such a capability, and desire, within us, as sentient beings with cognitive reasoning capabilities, to ascertain an innate understanding of the world around us. A beautiful answer. And yet: where do man's natural or attained abilities come from? And how would you define "genius"?
I would not attribute such things to a divine being. Instead, I attribute them to man himself. What should one consider to be the "normal" mental capabilities or strength for any given human being? Is it not equally normal for some one to be a genius? We all have such a capability, and desire, within us, as sentient beings with cognitive reasoning capabilities, to ascertain an innate understanding of the world around us. A beautiful answer. And yet: where do man's natural or attained abilities come from? And how would you define "genius"?
Last edited by figaro on Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Possible Agreement
Are the "normal limitations and weaknesses" of the human body really limitations imposed by nature? Or are they imposed by ourselves?
And now we can agree, possibly ... I would say both: by nature and by ourselves. We are limited by the physical body - well, I think we could all agree on that. And yet we also imprison ourselves with our thoughts and emotions, i.e. the ego.
Unfortunately, I am exhausted and must leave this fine discussion. But I will return. Thank you for this discussion.
And now we can agree, possibly ... I would say both: by nature and by ourselves. We are limited by the physical body - well, I think we could all agree on that. And yet we also imprison ourselves with our thoughts and emotions, i.e. the ego.
Unfortunately, I am exhausted and must leave this fine discussion. But I will return. Thank you for this discussion.
Spiritual vs ...
Good afternoon Anubis! I send your computer Healing.
I have been thinking. You say that you are not spiritual - and yet you obviously know right from wrong, and have entered a long discussion with someone who sees angels and other Divine Beings almost daily. How exactly would you define "spiritual"? You also do not admit to a "Higher Self" and yet seem to make a distinction within man of his higher capabilities vs his lower passions. How then do you define "Higher Self", that you would reject the concept?
I have other tasks at the moment but will return.
I have been thinking. You say that you are not spiritual - and yet you obviously know right from wrong, and have entered a long discussion with someone who sees angels and other Divine Beings almost daily. How exactly would you define "spiritual"? You also do not admit to a "Higher Self" and yet seem to make a distinction within man of his higher capabilities vs his lower passions. How then do you define "Higher Self", that you would reject the concept?
I have other tasks at the moment but will return.
Hello, Figaro!! Well, my computer is fixed, so I have now returned to my typical evening posts.
I was speaking more of spiritual growth within the various species (hmm... I seem to have forgotten the plural of "species".) : that we have learned to work together, established various rules, ethical laws; these attributes can be found in groups other than humans, and are passed down through the generations and improved upon.
I don't know if establishing moral guidelines or laws is the same as spiritual growth. Nor do I think beings outside of humans have a developed understanding of spirituality in the way humans do.
Working together implies love and compassion
Not always. Working together often implies the recognition of a common ground between interested parties, and little more. Two people can work together to fulfill a worth wile cause just as easily as two people can work together to achieve a less than savory goal.
I was speaking more of spiritual growth within the various species (hmm... I seem to have forgotten the plural of "species".) : that we have learned to work together, established various rules, ethical laws; these attributes can be found in groups other than humans, and are passed down through the generations and improved upon.
I don't know if establishing moral guidelines or laws is the same as spiritual growth. Nor do I think beings outside of humans have a developed understanding of spirituality in the way humans do.
Working together implies love and compassion
Not always. Working together often implies the recognition of a common ground between interested parties, and little more. Two people can work together to fulfill a worth wile cause just as easily as two people can work together to achieve a less than savory goal.
But what other beings on earth can move boulders with one hand, cause floods to recede, tame wild animals with a few words, walk on water, swallow poisons without harm, not have to eat or sleep, walk through walls etc etc etc ?? And these are not just legends.
I'm sorry, but all of this, well, parts of it, sound bizzare. No being that I know of can cause floods to recede, otherwise, things would be much different for flood disaster victims. Some people claim to be able to talk to animals, I don't understand that, but to each their own.
I'm sorry, but these saints do sound like legends. If any being can perform any of the above mentioned actions, then they are most likely not of this world.
That Pure Consciousness contained within It the potential of all individual, personal thoughts. And I would say that our emotions arise from our thoughts.
But if our Pure Consciousness is the root of all thought, and our emotions rise from those thoughts, then doesn't that make us our emotions and thoughts??
You lost me - could you explain, say this with different words?
My interperetation of the "Pure Consciouness" is the soul. So, using that interperetation, if the soul is the source of our thoughts, and emotions arise from those thoughts, then wouldn't that make us our thoughts and emotions?? Being that they would be the definition of who we are.
I'm sorry, but all of this, well, parts of it, sound bizzare. No being that I know of can cause floods to recede, otherwise, things would be much different for flood disaster victims. Some people claim to be able to talk to animals, I don't understand that, but to each their own.
I'm sorry, but these saints do sound like legends. If any being can perform any of the above mentioned actions, then they are most likely not of this world.
That Pure Consciousness contained within It the potential of all individual, personal thoughts. And I would say that our emotions arise from our thoughts.
But if our Pure Consciousness is the root of all thought, and our emotions rise from those thoughts, then doesn't that make us our emotions and thoughts??
You lost me - could you explain, say this with different words?
My interperetation of the "Pure Consciouness" is the soul. So, using that interperetation, if the soul is the source of our thoughts, and emotions arise from those thoughts, then wouldn't that make us our thoughts and emotions?? Being that they would be the definition of who we are.